Discussion:
How complete is MVS 3.8
Bob Crail
2009-06-10 22:54:40 UTC
Permalink
I have recently orders the Hercules MVS3.8 turnkey system. I have heard that
ISPF and other 'features' are not included. Can anyone comment on such.

TIA



Best Regards

Bob



bcc-e+***@public.gmane.org
scott
2009-06-10 23:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Yes, cost items such as: ISPF/PDF, CICS, and IMS, to name some are
not included. RPF which does a decent job can replace ISPF/PDF (or
SPF). Someone is working on something similar to CICS from what I
hear. As for IMS, no replacement or something similar on that one.

Scott
Post by Bob Crail
I have recently orders the Hercules MVS3.8 turnkey system. I have
heard that ISPF and other ‘features’ are not included. Can anyone
comment on such.
TIA
Best Regards
Bob
kerravon86
2009-06-11 00:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by scott
Yes, cost items such as: ISPF/PDF, CICS, and IMS, to name
some are
not included. RPF which does a decent job can replace ISPF/PDF (or
SPF). Someone is working on something similar to CICS from what I
hear. As for IMS, no replacement or something similar on that one.
Is there any advantage to IMS over DB2?

And if you need a replacement for DB2, SQL Lite
has apparently been made to work with JCC. Never
tried it on GCCMVS. Haven't thought of an
application for it yet either.

BFN. Paul.
cedarlakebuzzards
2009-06-21 03:59:09 UTC
Permalink
--- In H390-MVS-***@public.gmane.org, "kerravon86" <***@...> wrote:
...snip...
Post by kerravon86
Is there any advantage to IMS over DB2?
IMS may be more efficient as far as CPU times goes but the flexibility
of DB2 far outshines IMS.

IMS is not a relational database management system (DMBS) like DB2. IMS
does not support SQL, is more "labor" intensive to maintain, and is very
inflexible. It's been a while but I seem to remember that each IMS
database record had a unique access module (PSB?) that was generated by
macros, the application interfaced via a query language that was nothing
like SQL.

DB2 is a relational DBMS. It supports SQL. The entire database is
managed by SQL commands and is less "labor" itensive to maintain and is
easily maintained. DB2 does not require you to generate any code - it
takes care of all of that stuff dynamically.
Post by kerravon86
And if you need a replacement for DB2, SQL Lite
has apparently been made to work with JCC. Never
tried it on GCCMVS. Haven't thought of an
application for it yet either.
BFN. Paul.
Ed

Kevin Monceaux
2009-06-11 03:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by scott
As for IMS, no replacement or something similar on that one.
There is that early(pre-IBM) version of DL/I available, but not for
MVS 3.8. Last I heard it only runs under MVT, or perhaps OS/360 in
general. I tinkered a bit with it under MVT when it first appeared.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla!!!
halfmeg
2009-06-11 03:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by scott
As for IMS, no replacement or something similar on that one.
DL/I is included with the TK3 Update coming soon. It needs someone to take it a little further to get it working properly.

My understanding is it works on MVT, but MVS has slightly different MACROS and appendages (?) so it needs further work.

Phil
scott
2009-06-11 04:10:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by halfmeg
Post by scott
As for IMS, no replacement or something similar on that one.
DL/I is included with the TK3 Update coming soon. It needs someone to take it a little further to get it working properly.
My understanding is it works on MVT, but MVS has slightly different MACROS and appendages (?) so it needs further work.
Phil
Any documentation on DL/1?

Scott
Kevin Monceaux
2009-06-11 04:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by halfmeg
DL/I is included with the TK3 Update coming soon. It needs someone
to take it a little further to get it working properly.
Cool!!
Post by halfmeg
My understanding is it works on MVT, but MVS has slightly different
MACROS and appendages (?) so it needs further work.
Does that mean the source was recovered? If I remember correctly that
was part of the problem getting it working under MVS. The source was
truncated due to a tape I/O error.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla!!!
halfmeg
2009-06-11 10:55:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Monceaux
Post by halfmeg
DL/I is included with the TK3 Update coming soon. It needs
someone to take it a little further to get it working properly.
Cool!!
Post by halfmeg
My understanding is it works on MVT, but MVS has slightly
different MACROS and appendages (?) so it needs further work.
Does that mean the source was recovered? If I remember correctly
that was part of the problem getting it working under MVS. The
source was truncated due to a tape I/O error.
The tape never resurfaced to my knowledge, however whatever was not recovered didn't seem to prohibit DL/I from working on MVT.

Thought I had posted this previously but can't find it now.

---------------------------------------------------------

Volker posted in hercules-oc360 on Feb 13, 2005:

I have been working on getting DLI/360 to run on MVS. It did not
work. Then I tried to get a reference installation on MVT. It did
work (Thanks Kevin for the sample programs).

Taking these sample programs and the setup to MVS, I restarted my
efforts. Now, instead of getting an undocumented status code I got a
real MVS error message: DD Statement missing for (garbage)


Ooops - my porous memory suddenly remembered that a DBD contaisn an
OS DCB. Could it be that, by chance, the MVT DCB and the MVS DCB are
different? You bet. The MVS DCB has a 16 bytes prefix, which is
not there in MVT

I created an IDCB macro with the MVT DCB layout, and modified DBDGEN
macro to call IDCB instead of DCB - Voila, open now fails with a
"data mangement error" status code and an MVS message. Turns out
that we need an IEAAPP00 member which names the OSAM channel end
appendage. One IPL + CLPA later the open succeeds and the database
can be loaded.


But that's about it. There are more control blocks involved, like
IOB, DEB, also some EXCP programming . Any other process option but
load will fail with messages

IEC223I IFG0200V,UP0712,G,TESTDBO,13B,DLI001,DLI.TESTDB.OSAM
IEC999I IFG0TC0A,IFG0TC0B,UP0712 ,G ,DEB ADDR = 9ABF9C

when the OSAM part of the database is accesses. No reason code.
Looking at the job log I find a return code of 5728 (?? I always
knew that a RC cannot be more than 4095 ??)

I have a dump and a GTF trace for the problem. I have very little
spare time in the weeks to come. Now my questions:


1.) Where do I find documentation on how to write a channel end
appendage IGG019Z9
2.) Where do I find documentation on how to write a type 2 SVC for
MVT? for MVS?
3.) Is anybody willing to take a look at trace and dump at
http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/pub/dlidump.zip (340230 bytes) for me?

---------------------------------------------------------------

The link for the above trace and dump is gone now, perhaps due to a machine failure he suffered last year in which some data was not recovered IIRC.

To my knowledge there is little to no documentation on DL/I but IMS is the offspring so there may be some guidance in older IMS manuals.

Phil
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